终局
1985年 南非
严禁非法集会 This is an illegal gathering.
相关人员马上解散 You must disperse immediately.
藏低一点 Stay down.
通过 Pass.
你是索韦托的 You're in Soweto.
来干什么 Why?
我姐家在三区 My sister lives in District Three.
后箱里装了什么 What's in the back?
家具 Furniture.
等等 Wait.
好了 没事了 Okay, it's fine.
当时这孩子和他爸爸 姐姐正在外面捡柴火 He was out collecting wood with his father and his sister.
不知道从哪冒出来的警察 The police came out of nowhere and
把我们抓起来 带到桥那里去了 Grabbed us and took us to the bridge.
他们带走了爸爸 把他装进一个帆布包里... They took my dad and tied him in a canvas bag...
然后把他丢到河里 And dropped him into the river.
让我们看着他被淹死 They made us watch him drown.
他们让我们回家告诉其他人 They told us to go home and tell the others
这就是支持非洲民族议会的下场 The price for being ANC.
我们有一个词... We have a word...
人道待人 'Ubuntu'.
意思是一个人的人性 It means a person's humanity...
是由他们对待别人的方式来衡量的 Is measured according to their relationship with others.
我们告诉孩子们 犯下罪行的这些人 We tell the children that these people, who commit these crimes...
已经失去了人性... Have lost their humanity...
和我们一样 也是种族隔离的受害者 And are as much victims of Apartheid as we are.
这王八蛋是谁 Who the hell is he?
他是咱们的朋友 我担保 He's a friend I can vouch for him.
他是来帮忙的 他是联合矿业公司的人 He's here to help. He's from Consolidated Goldfields.
来谈谈办学筹资的问题 To talk about fund raising for our schools programme.
我们不要他来帮忙 We didn't ask for his hand-outs.
-放过他 -迈克尔·杨 - Leave him be! Let him be! - Michael Young.
先生 Sir?
快滚 Go, go, go!
-我是迈克尔·杨 -有什么进展吗 - It's Michael Young. - What progress?
这条路不通 目标要更高一点 This isn't going to work for us. We need to aim higher.
留在山脚下才更安全 Safer to stay in the foothills.
山顶太空旷 容易遭暗算 The more visible, the more vulnerable we are.
对 是挺安全 Yes, it's much safer. Yes.
18个月后 伦敦康诺特大楼
请肃静 A bit of hush.
我非常荣幸地介绍一下 It is my pleasure to present
非洲国民大会信息部长 塔博·姆贝基先生 Thabo Mbeki. The African National Congress' Head of Information...
姆贝基先生代表非洲民族议会主席 Who is here representing the ANC president,
奥利佛·坦布前来出席宴会 Oliver Tambo.
大家欢迎一下姆贝基先生吧 I know that you'll make Mr Mbeki feel most welcome.
我叫塔博·姆贝基... My name is Thabo Mbeki...
我是个恐怖分子 And I am a terrorist.
他们肯定是跟你们这么说的吧 No doubt, that is what you have been told.
没有引爆装置 No incendiary devices.
没有夹带武器 No concealed weapons.
我只是一个人 跟你们一样 I am just a man, as you are.
南非的总统每日... Every day the President of South Africa...
披着拯救民族危难的外衣 Under the mantle of his State of Emergency...
部署数千军队到镇区里... Deploys thousands more of his troops in the townships...
残忍地镇压反对他暴政的抗争势力 Brutally crushing the rising resistance to his oppressive regime.
然而 英国还是南非的主要贸易伙伴 Yet, the UK, is still one of South Africa's leading trading partners.
每所公司 Every company...
每个金融机构还在继续投资 Every financial institution which continues to invest there...
为博塔(当时南非总统)政权提供金钱援助 Is a source of political and economic strength to P.W. Botha.
如果金钱真是万能的 If it is true that money talks,
那就让它用在点子上吧 Then let it speak, clearly.
我们呼吁民族流血事件结束的时候 Let your voice join ours
请加入我们 When we say the bloodshed of our people must end.
大喊"停下"的时机已经到来 The time to shout 'enough' has come.
是该诸位行动的时候了 The time for you to act is here.
姆贝基先生 Mr Mbeki?
迈克尔·杨 Michael Young.
我是联合矿业公司的公关事务主管 Public Affairs Director, Consolidated Goldfields.
我们怎么才能帮助你们 Tell me how we can help.
这决定可不能太草率 杨先生 It's not an offer to make lightly, Mr Young.
会把你牵扯进来的 We might take you up on it.
不是草率的决定 It wasn't made lightly.
如你所说 As you say,
我们也有理由保护你国家的安全 We too have an incentive to ensure your country's survival.
我们有一个不断重复的梦魇 杨先生 We have this recurring nightmare, Mr Young...
那就是有一天 That one day
南非政府会给我们一条讯息 The South African Government will send us a message...
表示他们已经准备好和我们 Indicating that it is ready
谈论结束种族隔离的问题 To talk to us about ending apartheid.
但是由于我们的敌对和不信任 Because of our antagonism and mistrust,
我们没有接受到这条讯息 We fail to hear the message.
未能做出回应 We fail to respond.
失去了良机 We miss the moment.
谢谢你 Thank you.
会不会是潜伏在 An apparatchik working for
反对种族隔离的联合矿业的政府人员 A reactionary outfit like Goldfields?
所以才会找上门来 Is that what it's come to?
他为联合矿业工作 The fact that he works for Goldfields means
意味着他会言听计从 He'll be listened to.
你能想到更好的通行证吗 You know a better entry card?
是不是公关事物只是一个幌子 And if the Public Affairs thing is just a front?
我猜他是英国秘密情报局的 I doubt he's MI6.
我需要谈谈 I need a word.
他在等你 He's expecting you.
请进 Come in.
事情有了进展 I think I have a way forward on our problem.
你说吧 I'm listening.
南非 开普敦
维江先生 Mr Vijoan?
我是迈克尔 杨 It's Michael Young.
就是上周打电话说会谈的那个 I called last week about the meetings...
我想在非洲民族议会和政府间建立桥梁 I'm trying to set up between the ANC and leading Afrikaners.
危险太大了 杨先生 The risk is too great, Mr Young.
我还要为我的孩子考虑 I have a young family to think of.
请别打电话我了 Please don't call me again.
那只是试探性会谈 They're just exploratory meetings...
代表荷兰改革教堂的那个人 And someone representing the Dutch Reform Church...
最好能作为双方的调停者 Who better to act as a mediator between the two sides.
把自己牵涉到政治里去 It's not the policy of our church to
这不是我们教堂的政策 Involve ourselves in politics.
我不能帮助你 很抱歉 I can't help you. I am sorry.
双方都有一部分人想以武力代替和谈 There are those on both sides who favour force over dialogue.
为了保密起见 To maintain secrecy,
我们最好能在英国举行和谈 It's best if we hold the talks in the U.K.
在南非 保密是生活的方式 In South Africa, secrets are a way of life.
他们习惯了当面扔炸弹 They also have a habit of exploding in your face.
我没空理这个 对不起 I can't be bothered. I'm sorry.
-能借用下厕所吗 -可以 在后面 - Can I use your toilet? - Yeah, it's around the back.
斯坦伦堡 威尔康姆
爱心总喜欢把我们推向哲学的世界 Love has a habit of pushing us into the arms of philosophy.
夺取千条人命的地震 An earthquake claims a thousand lives.
遭受侵略者生命威胁的家庭 Families bludgeoned to death by intruders.
爱子的死亡 The death of a much loved child.
这些事件不禁让我们询问 Such events prompt us to ask
仁慈的神怎能允许 How a benign Deity can allow...
这种悲剧发生 Such tragedies to happen.
哲学的任务 The task of Philosophy is
是要让我们跳出日常生活的无为与混乱... To rise above the futility and chaos of daily life...
寻求存在的真谛 To seek a deeper truth to our existence.
我以帕斯卡的一句话来结束今天的课程 I'll finish with the words of Pascal.
'如果人的尊严根深于思想之中... 'If man's dignity lies in thought...
那么就让我们努力思考吧' Then let us all strive to think well.'
再会 Good day.
注意了 Be warned!
还没交'自由与国家'课题作业的同学 Those who have not yet handed in their assignment on Freedom and the State...
他们的自由会被削减 Will find their own freedom curtailed.
古博先生 行行好 Mr Gruber, make my day.
换个新的打字机墨带吧 Treat yourself to a new typewriter ribbon.
应该是杨先生吧 Mr Young, I assume?
你接受了一个大胆的任务 An audacious mission you've undertaken.
一个不可能的任务 或许更能形容 A mission impossible, might be more apt.
你请求的事情不可能 What you are asking is impossible.
一个理智的人不会冒着丢饭碗的危险 No sane man would put his livelihood,
更不用说生命啦 Not to mention his life...
选择与恶魔共餐 On the line to break bread with the devil.
在这个国家 公然反对种族隔离的人 In this country, those who go public against Apartheid...
会被当做社会弃民一样对待 Acquire the status of a pariah.
尽管如此 你不是还是见我了吗 Yet, you still agreed to meet with me?
你说联合矿业公司同意为会谈筹资 You say Consolidated Goldfields have agreed to fund these meetings?
你的公司就是自掘坟墓 Your founder would turn in his grave.
罗德斯认为政客失意的时候 Rhodes knew that market forces can succeed
市场经济将会加强 Where politicians fail.
你太虚伪了 You are being disingenuous.
就是你的公司想保护它的投资 对吧 This is about your company protecting it's investments here, is it not?
他们知道种族隔离为道德和经济带来厄运 They know apartheid is an anathema morally and economically.
他们已经谋划已久了 They've colluded with it long enough.
我们国家正在进行一场无声的政变 It's an open secret that
已经是公开的秘密了 A silent coup has taken place in our country.
博塔已经不再与议会和内阁协谈了... Botha no longer consults Parliament or the cabinet...
而是以中世纪帝王的姿态统领全国 But rules in the manner of a medieval monarch.
他只听安全顾问的话 Only his inner sanctum of security advisors have his ear.
只要他们手中掌握着权力 It's they who wield the power, and they are not interested...
对政治上的解决方案不会感兴趣的 In a political solution.
跟大多非洲白人一样 我觉得 Like most Afrikaners, I find...
非洲民族议会凶残的处世之道 The murderous methodology of the ANC
从道德上来讲令人厌恶 Morally repugnant...
去笼络他们的想法令人憎恶 And the idea of cosying up to them is abhorrent...
就连想想都令我作呕 Even the thought makes me retch.
我很抱歉 让你白跑一趟 I'm sorry that you had a wasted journey.
我不是你们要找的那个人 I am not the man for your mission.
开始行动 Get on the move.
南非波尔斯摩监狱
如果你不忙的话 曼德拉先生... If you are not otherwise engaged, Mr Mandela...
司法部长邀请你与他一同饮茶 The Minister of Justice invites you to join him for tea.
我听说这次有黄瓜三明治 I'm told it's cucumber sandwiches this time.
似乎你还有一位来访者 It seems you have another visitor, too.
是国家情报局局长 The Head of National Intelligence, no less.
巴纳德博士来了吗 Doctor Barnard is here?
请稍等一下 布兰德先生 A moment if you please, Mr Brand.
收到 正常 Copy, control.
谢谢 Thank you.
正常 确认目标到达 Control. Confirm subject's arrival.
考特斯先生 很高兴再次见到你 Mr Coatsee. Good to see you again.
很高兴见到你 曼德拉先生 Good to see you too, Mr Mandela.
这位是国家情报局局长 Doctor Neil Barnard is here,
尼尔·巴纳德博士 Head of National Intelligence.
他被邀请出席我们的谈话 He's asked to sit in on our discussions.
纳尔逊·曼德拉先生 尼尔·巴纳德博士 Mr Nelson Mandela. Doctor Neil Barnard.
我为此机会等待已久 博士 I've waited a long time for this opportunity, Doctor.
我也一样 先生 Likewise, sir.
...已经用催泪瓦斯驱散人群... ...Used tear gas to disperse the crowd...
安全保卫队发言人称此为... In what a security forces spokesperson described as...
'控制暴动的必要措施' 'Necessary measures to contain the violence'.
正当尤金·泰尔·布兰奇领导的 And, there were further arrests
欧洲血统南非人抵抗运动党 When Eugene Terre'Blanche's
征兵游行的时候 AWB party...
很多人被捕 4人被扣留 Held a recruitment rally, four people were detained.
如果他们想以压迫和暴力夺得这个国家 If they want to take this country by force and violence...
那么就与我们刀枪相见吧 They'll meet us over the barrel of a gun.
抵抗到底 A! W! B!
迈克尔·杨 Michael Young.
我不能看着我的国家沦亡还坐视不理 I cannot stand by and do nothing while my country is reduced to ashes.
我会出席你的会谈 I'll come to your meeting.
告诉我时间地点 Let me know where and when.
巴纳德博士来了 总统先生 Doctor Barnard, Mr President.
他上勾了吗 Did he take the bait?
而且他拒绝了命运 And deny his moment of destiny?
-他接受了 -虚荣 虚荣 - He took it alright. - Vanity... Vanity.
赞比亚 卢萨卡 非洲民族会议中心
塔博在等着见你 Tambo's waiting to see you.
奥利佛 或许我们期待已久的时机到了 Oliver, maybe these talks are the opportunity we've been waiting for.
是的 但是不是每个人都会喜欢的 Yes, but not everyone is going to like it.
很多人会把这看做反叛 Many will see this as a betrayal.
所以我们必须保守秘密 So, we need to keep this between us,
你只能对我传达报告 And report back only to me.
小心点 塔博 Be careful, Thabo.
我们进去了 We're in.
看到了客房的便条 Some housekeeping notes.
在卢萨卡或是伦敦 No telephone communication with the ANC either...
都没有和非洲民族议会通话记录 In Lusaka or here in London.
南非情报局已经录控我们的电话了 South African Intelligence have our phones tapped.
从现在开始 你的也是 Yours too, by now.
别以为你回了伦敦就安全了 Don't think because you're back in London you're not vulnerable.
安全局很可能在车里发炸弹 Car and letter bombs are the weapons of
或是直接把炸弹邮寄给你 Choice of the security agents.
欢迎进入我们的世界 Welcome to our world.
董事会听到风声 The board get wind
知道公司和一群 We're jumping into bed...
手拿卡拉什尼科夫冲锋枪的恐怖分子 With a bunch of Kalashnikov
搅和在一起 Carrying terrorists...
我们已经被踢出来了 你知道吗 We'll both be out on our ears. You realise that?
他们不能忽略现实 They can't ignore reality.
博塔一天天专政下去 Every day Botha gets more isolated,
国家一天天沦亡 The country more ungovernable.
到那时没有什么利益可图 Something doesn't give,
公司也会和它一起垮掉 And soon the company will go down with it.
你以为你在此次事件中扮演什么角色 You see your role in this as what?
创造一个和解的舞台的局外人 To create a neutral arena and step aside.
希望他们能把对方看做同类 而非敌人 Hope that they can see each other as men, rather than as enemies.
真是冒险的策略 A risky strategy.
其他人的处境更危险 Others are risking more than that.
投资者不会听你的豪言壮语的 Heroics don't cut much ice with shareholders.
只有一个'必须知道'的原则 A 'need to know' basis. Only.
不要相信任何人 Trust no-one.
不要信任任何人 Confide in no-one.
我会把花销算在研究和开发上 I'll bury the costs under Research and Development,
或者类似的事情上 Or some such.
如果我发生不测 请帮我处理这些私事 Arrangements for my personal affairs should anything happen to me.
-你觉得会有可能吗 -只是以防万一 - You think that's likely? - A precaution.
迈克尔 Michael?
如果东窗事发... If this ever gets out...
我会否认整个计划 I shall have to deny all knowledge of it and,
并且否认你是我的人 Disown you.
如果我不能令人信服 那我就什么都没了 And, i'll be nothing, if not convincing.
护照 车票都带了吗 Passport? Ticket?
打车吧 Taxi.
教授 Professor.
正是时候 In the nick of time.
能进去吗 May I come in?
对于公众来说 博塔还在掌权 In public, Botha's still holding the party line...
和谈之前 你必须要求他们停止恐怖活动 That you must defeat terrorists before you can negotiate with them.
私底下 你要尽可能拖住和谈的进度 Privately, he wants you to continue the dialogue for as long as possible.
倘若我们能了解到更多的 The more we know about
非洲民族议会权利架构的断层 The ANC's fault lines in their power structure...
我们就能更好的准备 控制并结束战争 The better we are equipped to control the end game.
那么 我要扮演你的间谍 So, I am to act as your spy?
我们更想保持中立 A go between is more what we had in mind.
你想过为什么选你来领导这次会谈吗 教授 Have you thought why you were chosen to lead these talks, Professor?
你好说话 You're a soft target.
他们认为你作为一个社会公义的拥护者 They think your reputation as an advocate for social justice...
会让他们有机可乘 Gives them a way in.
继续伪装吧 Play along.
姆贝基肯定会以为你只是一个... Mbeki must think you are just a...
受人尊敬 寻求真理的学者 Respected academic on a fact-finding mission.
我是好说话 但也不是没主见的 博士 A soft target is not a soft touch, Doctor.
我要去那个会议听听他们的话 I'm going to that meeting to hear what they have to say.
也让他们听听我讲的话 As importantly for them to hear what I have to say.
整个计划毫无作用 The whole process is futile otherwise.
但是事实是 教授 Ja, but the thing is, you see, Professor.
如果你不合作... You don't co-operate...
你就无法参加这项计划 Your participation in the process will be terminated.
我的直线电话 打给我 My direct line. Call me.
教授 你现在必须小心炸弹装置了 Professor, you need to be vigilant about incendiary devices now.
记得在开车前先检查车底 Always check under your car before using it.
我会派人告诉你怎么检查的 I'll send my people over to show you how.
你的票呢 And your ticket?
别忘了打电话给阿比·撒齐 Don't forget to ring Albi Sachs.
莫桑比克 非洲民族会议办事处
你好 Hello?
我是塔博·姆贝基 我要聊几句 This is Thabo Mbeki. I need a quick word.
他刚去机场 我看能不能赶上他 你等等 He's just left for the airport. I'll try and catch him, hold on.
阿比 Albi!
-换条线路 -换线 - Get another line. - Another line, please!
非洲民族会议律师在汽车爆炸案中遇难
1988年春 英格兰索美塞 梅斯庄园
告诉工作人员加强安全检查 Background checks on staff.
他们知道安全的重要性吗 And they know that security is an issue?
我早上对他们做了简报 I briefed them this morning.
每天早上对他们做简报 一定要强调 Brief them every morning. Just keep hammering it home.
-这里是马本奇先生的房间 -姆贝基 - This is Mr Mambenki's room. - Mbeki.
-所有房间都是套房 -很好 - All the rooms are ensuite. - It's nice.
-隔壁呢 -他的同事 帕德先生 - And, next door? - His colleague. Mr... Pahad.
把埃斯特侯赛安排在姆贝基隔壁 Put Professor Esterhuyse next to Mbeki.
要把他们打乱 尽力制造接触的机会 We need to mix them up. Maximise the opportunity for chance meetings.
-好的 -很好 谢谢 - Right. - Good. Thank you.
今天这种场合 '欢迎'一词已经微不足道 'Welcome' seems a meagre word for such an occasion.
但是真诚依旧 But, it is no less sincere, all the same.
现在 你看我起草的议程表... Now, as you can see from the agenda I drew up...
我们有很多事情要谈讨 We have a lot of ground to cover.
如果我们要完成这些项目 就必须... So, if we're to get through it, I think it is essential that...
出于尊重 杨先生 With respect, Mr Young.
你不是南非人 这不是你的议程表 Since you are not South African, it's not your agenda.
这是我们的 It's ours.
出于尊敬 姆贝基先生 And, with respect, Mr Mbeki...
我必须提一下议程先前已争得双方同意 I must remind you that the agenda was agreed by both sides in advance.
第一条 非洲民会一方陈述观点 Item one.The ANC perspective.
我知道你们南非白人 We know that you Afrikaners
为国家付出了鲜血 Have paid in blood for your country.
我们也是 As, we have.
我们也知道由于你们的遭遇 We know too, that it was from your suffering...
种族隔离制度逐渐形成 That a system of apartheid was incubated.
掌权 最根本的原因是生存 The need to dominate is often a consequence of survival.
我们的问题在于被流放 Our problem is, as exiles, we are...
我们直接不在政治体系管辖内 Outside the political system.
所以我们在与政府的任何谈判中 So, we are not in a position to offer any concessions or compromises...
不能让步或妥协 In any potential negotiations with the government.
如果你不能让步 你能做什么呢 If you can't offer concessions, what can you offer?
我们所能做的就是停火 All we can do is set out our stall of demands.
只有他们释放纳尔逊·曼德拉 The release of Nelson Mandela
和所有的政治囚犯们 And all political prisoners.
正式宣布政治机构没有隐患 The unbanning of all proscribed political organisations.
到那时候多数决定原则才可以有效 Only then can a negotiated transition to majority rule take place.
那么我们可以断定非洲民族会议 So, then, we can take it that there is no truth in the rumour...
希望曼德拉死在监狱只是谣言 That the ANC hopes Mandela will die in prison?
因此将他升格为殉国烈士 Thus elevating him to the status of martyr.
你不觉得他现在就是烈士吗 You don't think he's achieved that status already?
那些谣言和所有关于我们的信息 That rumour, along with most information about us...
都是虚假伪造的 Is based on disinformation.
如果放了他你们能保证 And, the riots and bloodshed if he does get released?
不再发生混乱和血杀事件吗 Can you guarantee you can control your guerrilla extremists?
先控制曼德拉夫人和她的关系网吧 Controlling Mrs Mandela and her necklacing would be a start.
那你们也控制一下警察的残暴行为 As would controlling the brutality of your security police.
你能保证吗 Can you guarantee that?
比勒陀利亚声明 博塔 There's talk in Pretoria that Botha is considering...
正准备组建一个新的隶属于国会的机构 Forming a new body to be affiliated to Parliament...
那里黑人和有色人种及印度人代表一样 Where black representatives can join the coloured and Indian delegates...
开始享受权力 As a prelude to power sharing.
你对这一提议有什么意见 Can we ask your opinion on such a proposal?
先说说你的意见 What is yours?
我来此的目的就是为了查出事实 I'm just here on a fact-finding mission,
姆贝基先生 Mr Mbeki.
关键是你的意见 Your opinion is the issue.
我们来这里不是为了调整种族隔离制度 My understanding is we are not here to discuss reforming Apartheid.
或者什么新的政权 Or, disguising it under some new administrative structure.
我们来这里是摧毁他们的 We're here to talk about how to abolish it.
我们追求的是多数决定原则的启动 What we are seeking, is a prelude to majority rule.
分权并不是我们的选择 Power sharing, is not an option.
教授 Ah, Professor.
好了 没事 好了 先生们 请停一下 Okay. Good, good. Gentlemen, please. Good.
你们能否再列出些对于多数决定原则的 Perhaps, if you outline the specific nature of your fears...
恐慌想法 Relating to majority rule.
这不是非常复杂的事 It's not bloody rocket science.
那些黑人们就是想要弄死我们 The blacks come after our blood,
我们的孩子在他们地盘被杀害 那是事实 And our children get slaughtered in their beds. That, is the reality.
依赖共和党的统治必定有损经济的稳定 A communist leaning administration will destroy our economic stability.
最终还是会和其他非洲国家一样 They'll end up in the same post colonial chaos...
以殖民混乱垮台 As the other African states.
教授 Professor?
你不仅仅抹杀了我们的语言和文化 You'll obliterate not only our language and our culture,
还抹杀了人权 But our human rights.
恐惧是反对者首要的武器 Fear is the first weapon of the oppressor.
他蒙蔽了所有人去意识他人的人性 It blinds us all from seeing the humanity of the other.
你也没有那么清白 姆贝基先生 Your hands are not so clean either, Mr Mbeki.
如果不是恐惧你又为什么发动恐怖袭击 What is your campaign of terror based on if not fear?
恐怖氛围不是我们弄得 教授 The culture of fear is not of our making, Professor.
我们是和殖民统治者学的 We learnt it at the feet of our masters.
看起来很累 曼德拉先生 又和你聊很晚 You're looking tired, Mr Mandela. We've kept you talking too late again.
幸运的是我今晚没有其他安排 Fortunately, I had no other plans tonight.
我期待着下次的谈话 博士 I look forward to our next conversation, Doctor.
有一阵子我记得你说 协谈 For a moment I thought you said,'negotiation'.
我是不是听错了 My ear's playing tricks on me.
再见 博士 Good night, Doctor.
-考特斯先生 -晚安 - Mr. Coatsee. - Good night.
不要再和那些罗本岛民联系了 Stop all contact with the other Robben Islanders.
不需要给他灌输希腊颂歌 We don't need their Greek Chorus in his ear.
好的 Alright.
明天给他准备一套西装 And get him a suit for next time.
让他感觉平等 他会更妥协 We'll get more out of him if he thinks he's an equal.
好的 主意不错 Okay. It's a good idea.
我把这里交给你 I'll leave you to it.
我就是觉得没有外人在场 事情更好解决 I just think things might free up a bit without an outsider present.
已经厌烦了吗 Bored with us already?
这是战略上的退出 It's a tactical withdrawal.
那么 教授 So, Professor.
你第一次见我 你是不是觉得 When you first saw me, did you think...
这就是那个该死的共产主义恐怖分子啊 'Ah, so that's what a fucking, communist terrorist looks like'?
你呢 你是不是也想 And, you? Did you think...
这就是那个混帐种族歧视白人啊 'Ah, so that's what a fucking racist Boer looks like'?
毫无疑问 你认为我们没有种族歧视 No doubt, you assume our claim to be non-racial...
只是政治商谈的虚夸 但是你错了 Is just a rhetoric of political convenience, but you are mistaken.
那决定了我们的一切 It's what defines us.
但是在你的假设中你也误会我们了 And you are mistaken in your assumptions about us,
姆贝基先生 Mr Mbeki.
我们的恐惧并不是来源于大肆宣扬 Our fear doesn't stem from propaganda...
而是我们深知有一天会被惩罚 But from the deep rooted knowledge that one day we will be punished...
因为我们犯下了滔天罪行 For all the terrible wrongs we have inflicted.
晚安 教授 Good night, Professor.
晚安 Goodnight.
你好 Hello?
教授 Professor?
有什么事 Can I help you?
隔墙有耳
杨保证过这个地方没有窃听器 Young gave his assurance the place was clean of bugs.
我可不想冒险 I couldn't take the chance.
希望我接下来的说的 你不会让我失望 I hope to God, you don't make me regret what I'm about to do.
据媒体和议会传言 博塔还是希望 To the press and parliament, Botha's still on message that...
再和谈之前 你必须自行放下武器 You must abandon your weapons before he'll conduct a dialogue with you.
但是 我的出席就说明一定另有隐情 But, my presence here suggests otherwise.
博塔知道我们的商谈吗 Botha knows about these talks?
我必须向国家情报局的巴纳德 I'm instructed to report back to him via Doctor Barnard...
汇报情况 In National Intelligence.
我就是他们的特洛伊木马 I'm to be their Trojan horse.
你竟冒险告诉我这些 教授 You take a risk telling me this, Professor.
不告诉你才是冒险 It would be a risk not telling you.
没有信任 就不会达成协议 Without trust, we'll achieve nothing.
塔博说如果我们 Tambo says if we are to...
要想赢得自由 首先 Win our freedom we must first...
要不怕吃苦 Banish bitterness.
这会是一次考验 This will be the test of it.
对我们所有人都是 For all of us.
帮他准备好 Get him ready.
让我们给他尝点失去的味道 Let's give him a taste of what he's been missing.
转一下身 If you could just turn around.
-完了 好了吗 -好看 - Okay. It's good? - Yeah.
多年不穿 我都不会系了 I've lost the knack of tying them over the years.
那我们走吧 Well, shall we?
我来接 我接就行 Got it. I've got it.
巴纳德 Barnard.
今天他还很享受他的自由吗 Did he enjoy his day of freedom?
至少能够尝一下甜头 等着瞧吧 Enough to get a taste for it, let's hope.
-英国商谈呢 -还在进行中 - And the UK talks? - Work in progress.
我需要更多的信息安慰内阁中强硬派议员 I need more than that to placate the bloody doves in Cabinet.
长官 内阁一定不能知道此事 Sir, the Cabinet must know absolutely nothing about this.
若有人泄密给美国有线新闻网 If some loose lips blabs to CNN
整个事件就会指向我们 The whole process could implode on us.
你给我提供这些商谈 You sold me these talks to
不就是为了追踪南非民会 Get the inside track on the ANC.
促使曼德拉有所改变 To give us leverage over Mandela.
如果你不提供信息 那还谈什么 If you're not going to deliver. What's the damn point?
我这里有他的确切保证 I have his exact words here somewhere.
让我们谈谈 Leave us.
我确实该回家了 博士 I do have a home to go to, Doctor.
尽管引来更多关于我容易受骗 At the risk of invoking more accusations that
单纯的指责 我还是觉得 I'm gullible and naive, I repeat...
姆贝基就是可以政府合作的人 In my view, Mbeki, is a man the government can do business with.
根据是什么 A view based on what?
你和他温馨的谈话吗 Your cosy fireside chats?
他那些关于大家痛苦的胡言乱语吗 His existential ramblings about universal suffrage?
一个人尊重另一个人的理想主义 One can respect a man's commitment to his ideals...
无论他用什么方法实现 Without sharing his methods of achieving them.
素我冒昧 Forgive me,
我不想拜倒在他自我统治的祭坛下 If I don't also genuflect at his altar of self government.
和谈没用吧 教授 Talk is cheap, Professor.
他没有妥协吧 一条也没有 He made no concessions, did he? Not one.
他所谓自我控制只不过是策略 His so called conversion to moderation is a ploy,
是塔博安排的 Orchestrated by Tambo.
你呢 And you...
你就信以为真了 You fell for it.
-我能回家了吗 -还不行 - Can I go home? - Not yet.
曼德拉让他的律师传了口信 Mandela sent his lawyer with a message for me.
他们将他和西苏鲁 和罗本岛居民隔离 They've isolated him from Sisulu and the other Robben Islanders.
他一直和巴纳德博士秘密交谈 He's been holding secret talks with Doctor Barnard from the N.I. S...
巴纳德再汇报给博塔 Who reports back to Botha.
我给比奥兹发送了关于会议的内容 I pressed Bizoz on the content of the meetings.
他说纳尔逊什么也没有说 He claims Nelson said nothing.
他向我保证 他一直坚信信仰 He wanted to assure me he's acting in good faith.
他中计了 He's walking into a trap.
博塔知道英国商谈 Botha knows about the U.K. talks.
巴纳德让埃斯特侯赛向他汇报信息 Barnard recruited Esterhuyse to act as his informer.
他们在和我们玩分裂统治的游戏 They're playing 'divide and rule' with us.
比勒陀利亚会宣布南非最著名的囚犯 Pretoria will claim that South Africa's most famous prisoner...
想要和平稳定 Wanted a peaceful settlement
而非洲民会的恐怖分子 却反对和平 But the ANC terrorists... Rejected it to
坚持武力解决 Pursue their doctrine of violence.
玛德巴不会掉那样的陷阱 Madiba would never fall for such a trick.
你怎么知道他现在精神状况 How do we know what his mental state is?
他承担了何种压力 The pressure he's under?
为了自由他会做出什么样的妥协 What concessions he'll make in return for his freedom?
他跟我们关系好为什么不说他在做什么 If he's so solid with us why not tell us what he's doing?
为什么只给你说 不给大家说 Why exclude you, of all people.
这个埃斯特侯赛 你信他吗 This Esterhuyse, do you trust him?
相信 Yes.
相信刚刚认识几个小时的人 A man you've barely known a few hours?
却要怀疑那个我最了解的 Yet, I'm supposed to doubt a man i've known a lifetime.
为我们献出一切的人 Who sacrificed everything for us.
如果因为信任 If trust is the issue...
也许存在怀疑是我的判断 Perhaps it is my judgement which is in doubt.
如果我们因为不信任而变质 If we let ourselves be tainted by distrust...
博塔的计策就成功了 我们就让他耍了 Botha's tactics will succeed. We play into his hands.
博塔下令议会不到一天就发生了爆炸 The bombing came less than 24 hours after President Botha told parliament...
治安队查处了在纳塔恐怖分子的窝点 That security forces had uncovered a terrorist cell in Natal...
逮捕了23名嫌疑叛乱分子 And arrested 23 suspected insurgents.
据说有两名疑犯在逃 We understand that two of the terrorists evaded capture.
治安队已经前往索韦托查找 Security Forces have stepped uptheir search in the Soweto area.
过来 Get in here.
我到家了 玛丽 有人吗 I'm home, Marie. Anyone home?
目标确定 明天中午12点 Target is confirmed. Tomorrow at twelve p.m.
好的 Sure.
南非约翰内斯堡附近 And the bloodshed in South Africa today...
约堡罗德堡 的购物中心 After a bomb exploded outside a shopping centre...
又发生一次血杀事件 In Roodeport, near Johannesburg.
4名市民当场死亡 18人受伤 Four civilians were killedand 18 others injured.
一位发言人称目标就在附近的银行 A spokesman claimed that the target was a nearby bank.
他谢绝提供与发生爆炸 He declined to give details on the operational difficulties...
相关的细节 Which caused the explosion.
你就是这样不明不白的进行爆炸活动 Is that how you justify your campaign of indiscriminate bombings...
杀害无辜的民众吗 The killing of innocent civilians?
我们从不想杀害民众 We have never supported the killing of civilians.
告诉那些因为你暗地爆炸和管道爆炸 Tell that to the women and children that you maim and kill...
致残或被杀害的妇女和小孩吧 With your limpet bombs and your pipe bombs.
还是那些妻离子散的伤害 Or are dead children legitimate collateral damage...
能够提升恐怖分子的人气 To promote your cycle of terror?
我可以成章成篇的说出死去的孩子 教授 I can quote you chapter and verse on dead children, Professor.
他们的名字 年龄 出生年月 包括我的孩子 Names, ages and dates, my son included.
我觉得该休息一下了 I think a break is in order, gentlemen.
非洲民会的政策一直是 ANC policy is, and always has been...
只有军队和经济利益才是合法的 That only military and economic targets are legitimate.
如果闻起来是垃圾 听起来是垃圾 If it smells like crap and it sounds like crap...
很有可能那就是垃圾 Chances are, it is crap.
我不止一次试图断言 Not once have I tried to justify...
南非治安军数量过多 The excesses of the South African Security Forces.
然而 你坚持给我灌输简化的教条 Yet, you persist in spouting this pre-digested dogma at me.
也许他们认为如果说的次数够多 Maybe they think if they say it enough times,
我们就信了 We'll buy it.
这种讨论毫无结果 我们是继续... This really is not productive, so either we move on...
约堡罗德堡爆炸不是偶然 The timing, of the Roodeport bomb isn't coincidental.
是兰萨卡授权的 Lusaka authorised it...
完全知道我们会议的内容 In the full knowledge of our meetings.
这是过时的恐怖战术 It's the old terror tactic...
一旦会议开始 就是实行武力 Once the talking starts, step up the violence.
如果你觉得那样可以让你们 If you think that's going to strengthen your hand...
在与政府谈判中占据有利地位 In any negotiations with the Government...
你已经看见了 那些机会都不复存在了 You've seen to it that all chance of that is off the table.
说实话 Frankly...
现在这些谈判也没什么意义 So are these talks.
-是时候加速进程了 -好的 - Time to turn up the heat. - Alright.
你好 曼德拉 请坐 Hello, Mr Mandela. Please.
我们来谈谈约堡罗德堡事件 Let's talk about Roodeport.
那些话很有必要讲讲 It needed saying.
没必要绕弯子 There was no getting round it.
也许吧 Perhaps.
但是却把他困到墙角 But, box a man into a corner and...
总统已经不耐烦了 曼德拉先生 The President is running out of patience, Mr Mandela.
要么你就公开指责共产党与非洲民会联合 Either, you denounce the communist links with the ANC...
发动的暴力事件 Condemn the violence...
要么我们之间就再没有商量的余地 Or, frankly, you and I? We have nothing further to discuss.
党政运动被迫在地下时 When political movements are forced underground...
他们当然要联合 They inevitably are thrown together...
没有哪个君子应敌人的请求 And, no man of honour would desert a lifelong friend...
抛弃一生的知己 At the request of a common enemy.
先生们 抱歉 Gentlemen, excuse us.
你不是这里唯一政治势力 曼德拉先生 You're not the only game in town, Mr Mandela.
你看不出来吗 Don't you see?
这是你抓住主动权的机会 This is your chance to seize the initiative.
非洲民会以为可以通过暴力获得政权 The ANC think they can bomb their way into power...
但是你的几句话 几句谴责的话 But a few words from you, condemning the violence...
不仅仅换回你的自由 Will not only secure your freedom...
也会让你自己 But will ensure that you alone...
成为政府唯一可以商谈的人 Will be the man the Government deals with.
你一个人就可以带领我们所有人走出僵局 You, alone, can lead us all out of this impasse.
难道你多年的付出就不应该有那个权力吗 Haven't your years of sacrifice earned you that right?
现在就是这种情形 This is the situation.
所有非洲民会组织 All ANC bombing operations...
都陷入兰萨卡的领导和统治模式 Fall under the command and control structure in Lusaka.
但是我们一些骨干认为 But, some of our cadres,
武力是唯一的解决途径 Believing force to be the only way...
有时候没有权力约束 Sometimes act without authority.
行动就变得混乱 Operations can get bungled.
无辜的人们 Innocent people...
被杀害 Get killed.
但是 相信我 But, you have my word...
我会力所能及 That I will do everything in my power...
保证市民不会再受到我们的惊吓 To ensure that civilians no longer suffer from our inadequacies.
你说你无法控制某些 Are you telling us that you are unable to control some of your...
激进的人员吗 姆贝基先生 Renegade cadres, Mr Mbeki?
如果你知道我们真实的情况 教授 If you know the truth of our situation, Professor...
你会明白武力事件 You will see that the issue of violence...
与我们竭力争取的其他事件是紧密联系的 Is irrevocably connected to the other issues we wrestle with.
只有我们进入了真正的民主程序 Only when we can participate in a truly democratic process...
我们才会放下武器 Will our armed struggle become obsolete.
到那时候我们之间的冲突才终止 Only then will the conflict between us end.
-睡得还好吗 -不错 你呢 - How did you sleep? - Not too bad. You?
还好 只要不梦见那律师的遭遇就行 Alright, except for terrible dreams about lawyers.
是啊 那才是噩梦呢 Oh, yes. That is a nightmare.
总之撒切尔在莫斯科 So, anyway, Thatcher is in Moscow...
红场的群众都围着她 The crowds in red square are all over her, mobbing her...
这些阿谀奉承让她感觉非常恶心 She's getting quite queasy with all this adulation...
所以她对她的翻译官说 So, she says to her interpreter,
我不是共产主义者 I'm not a communist then.
然后群众们回答说 我们也不是 And, they shout back, 'Neither are we! '
我来这以前认为 I came here believing what happened at
约堡罗德堡时间粉碎了所有的机会 Roodeport had deraam everything.
而你改变了这些 You changed that.
你在那个屋子里说的是不会实现的 What you said in that room will go no further.
-一路平安 威利 -我应该告诉你 - Safe home, Willie. - May I tell you...
对于你儿子的事我非常抱歉 How truly sorry I am about your son.
谢谢 Thank you.
塔博 Thabo?
兰萨卡10
靠边走小路 Come off the road.
从机场回来的路上出了点状况 There was an incident on the way from the airport.
他们不是政府的特工 They were not security agents.
大家都在讨论你的会谈 Word is out about your talks.
激进分子会利用一切方法阻止你的言论 Some of the militants will use any tactics to halt them.
二十年来只有武力能够镇压反叛 For two decades we've said only force will crush the enemy.
现在我们用演讲代替镇压 Instead of force, we now preach talks.
他们认为那是种背叛 They see that as a betrayal.
而当你在暴力问题上向他施压时 And when you pressed him on the violence issue...
他有没有提到非洲国民大会高层 Did he admit the ANC high command
现在批准监管基金了呢 Now sanction surveillance dollars
他依旧坚持最开始的意见 He made the same point he has made from the beginning...
遏止暴动 Cessation of violence...
取决于政府 Is contingent on the government
是否有效地实行民主 Committing to a democratic process
因为你告诉他即使 Because you told him there can be no question
暴动继续也不会有问题 Of that while the violence continues
告诉我 博士 他们是否应该 Tell me, doctor, should they agree to...
放弃武装抵抗之后 Give up the armed struggle and
和政府进行谈判呢 Negotiate with the government
你准备给他们什么作为回报 What would you give them in return?
你不能空着手 You cannot go into negotiation without
去和他们谈判 Bringing something empty handed.
而你却让我空着手去谈 Yet you send me in empty handed.
所以我空着手回来没什么奇怪的 Don't be surprised if I come back empty handed.
你没有谈判的权力 教授 You are not empowered to negotiate, professor.
你错了 教授 会谈不是没用的 You're wrong. Doctor. Talk is not cheap.
是我们唯一能做的 It's all we have left.
埃斯特侯赛先生认为 Mr Esterhuyse takes the view that...
在正式谈判之前 Before formal negotiations can take place...
双方必须首先互相让步 Concessions, must be made on both sides.
如果咱们表示出释放曼德拉的意向 If we make a gesture by releasing Mandela...
我从来没说过要 I said nothing about making
释放曼德拉 Concessions to Mandela's freedom
这不是派系斗争的问题 This is no longer a matter of political survival, sir.
您的赢取时间政策正好 Your policy of buying us time has created a...
为暴动的加剧提供了有利环境 A vacuum of uncertainty that is only fuelling the violence.
你知道我怎么认为吗 You know what I think?
这就是你掩饰失败的措辞 This is about your own survival, covering your sorry ass
如果你表现出向非洲国民大会妥协 If you are seen to take the initiative with the ANC...
历史会铭记你 History will always acknowledge it
因为是你站出来 Was you at the stage
从内战爆发的边缘 And vision to pull this country back,
拯救了这个国家 From the brink civil war
是你努力避免了灾难的发生 You alone averted that catastrophe.
历史也会因为我轻易放走 History might also say I took my
反叛者而记住我 Hand off the teller too soon
我现在释放曼德拉 I give way on Mandela's freedom now,
风平浪静的日子就没了 I give away tranquil
他和其他人一样 He's a man like any other.
得到的越多越不满足 The more he gets of it, the more he'll want it.
曼德拉是关键 Mandela is the key.
-今天去哪儿 -去给你个惊喜 - Where to today? - A surprise.
正常 目标已经抵达 Control, confirm subject arrival.
-情况怎么样 -一切正常 - Everything is alright - No problems.
希望你会喜欢新住处 曼德拉先生 I hope you like your new quarters, Mr Mandela?
这位是你的保安斯沃特 This is warrant officer Swart.
他照顾你 给你做饭 等等 He'll look after you. Do your cooking and so on.
咱们之前见过面 在罗本岛 We've met before, at Robben Island.
我经常开车带你去采石场 I used to drive you to the quarry.
真希望你做饭比当司机强 I hope you are a better cook than you were a driver.
带他转转 我得走了 Give him the tour. I'll leave you to settle in.
这有三个卧室 这间最大 There's three bedrooms. This is the largest.
我肯定这床 I'm sure you'll find the bed more
比你之前睡的舒服 Comfortable than you used to
部门会议被推迟了 教授 The departmental conference is postponed, professor.
你和那些非洲国民大会的无耻教授在英国 We know exactly what's going on in the UK...
密谋了什么我们都已经知道了 Between you and the ANC thugs professor.
下次谈判考虑清楚要谈什么 Think carefully before going next time
否则就别想再睡好觉了 Or learn to sleep wll fetch a shovel.
我是迈克尔·杨 请留言 This is Michael Young. Please leave a message.
我是埃斯特侯赛 This is esterhuyse.
我建议 I suggest...
咱们尽快 That you make a date for the next
安排下次会面 Meeting as soon as possible
-好想你 -你能回来真好 - I missed you. - It's nice to see you back.
万寿菊 紫罗兰 Marigolds. Pansies.
这株种错地方了 它需要更多的光照 This one is in the wrong place. It needs more light.
你选个合适的地儿 我去拿铁锹 You pick a spot. I'll fetch a shovel.
温伯利为释放曼德拉已发生72000次骚动
总统先生 Mr president?
总统先生你没事吧 Mr president, are you alright?
快去叫救护车 We need an ambulance now.
加油 加油 加油 Hip, hip, hooray!
再见 Bye bye, Tata.
我亲爱的朋友 My dear friend.
博特至少很关注我的金鸟笼 At best, Botha regarded my gilded cage
看我是否会屈服 As a way to seduce the submission.
但为了这一刻我已经准备了二十年 But I have had twenty years to prepare me for this moment.
和巴纳德谈判非常危险 Talking to Barnard was a high risk strategy...
但有一点你可以放心 But you can trust in one thing.
我不会跟政府谈条件的 That I am not negotiating terms with the government...
除非可以促进非洲国民大会的进程 But facilitating the process for the ANC to do so.
很显然你们和我现在已经 Surely, you and I have come too
远到他们没法把咱们分开了 Far to let them divide us now
德克勒克的新总统竞选 The election of the new state president F. W. De Klerk...
被认为是国家暴乱的导火索 Has sparked a wave of violence across the country.
而他关于重组的委任令 And sensitivity about his commitment to reform...
明显的加剧了暴动的程度 Seems to be fuelling the violence.
德克勒克先生代表国家政党的角色 Mr De Klerk's position to the right of the national party...
让一些评论者怀疑 Have left some observers to
他的胃口是否有所转变 Question his appetite for change
博塔的错误源于他对安全顾问的依赖 Botha's mistake was his reliance on his security
而保护他的权力是国会的决定 So the expense of protecting his power base in parliament.
我必须告诉你 这是个误会 I must tell you, that is a mistake
我不想重复第二遍了 I do not intent to repeat.
我错误地接受他的计划 My mistake was accommodating his
准备利用释放曼德拉 Plan to throw divine Mandela
来获得不切实际的政权 From the ANC in a futile attempt to cling on to power.
我和曼德拉先生的谈话 My discussions with Mr Mandela have
使我深信现在唯一的出路 Convinced me that the only way
就是在他们提条件之前 Of doing that now is to give some of it away and negotiate.
作出一些妥协之后开始谈判 Before it's taken from us.
你被停职已经够久了 博士 You've been detained long enough, Doctor.
各位 开始吧 Gentlemen, shall we?
反对种族隔离政策 Help us end apartheid now!
我怀疑是否能看到改革真正实行 I doubt we're looking at the messiah of change.
德克勒克拥护种族隔离政策 De Klerk is a life long apologist for apartheid.
这就是为什么他的政党选他来竞选 Presumably that's why his party chose him.
这是下次会议的名单 我加了一个名额 Names for the next meeting. I've added a new one.
-看着有点乱 -威廉·德克勒克 - Mix things up a bit. - Willem De Klerk?
-是总统的弟弟 -你太明智了 - Yes, the president's brother. - How prescient of you.
我希望他能让他哥哥放弃种族隔离 I'm hoping he's got his brother's ear.
和他哥哥正好相反 他很反感种族隔离 Unlike F.W., he's on record condemning apartheid.
如果他弟弟像否决埃斯特侯赛那样 What if his brother vetoes his attendance?
不让他出席呢 Along with Esterhuyse
埃斯特侯赛非常坚决 没什么能阻止他 Esterhuyse is committed now. Nothing will keep him away.
那就把他的护照吊销吧 Unless his passport is revoked.
这是埃斯特侯赛家 我们现在不在家 This is the Esterhuyse residence. We're not home right now.
有事请留言 我会给你回电话 If you leave a message. We'll call you back.
你确定他不在学校吗 And you're sure that he's nowhere in the university?
我给他家打过电话了 I've tried him at home.
塔博 托尼 阿齐兹 Thabo. Tony. Aziz.
很高兴又见面了 Good to see you again.
-其他人还没来吗 -快到了 - The others aren't here yet? - They will be. They will be.
如果他联系你 或者你见到他 If he contacts you, or if you see him...
告诉他尽快给迈克尔·杨打电话 Tell him to call Michael Young as soon as possible.
我等你电话 I'll be waiting by the phone.
告诉他我现在不能见他 Tell him that I can't see him now.
博士 总统今天还是 The president will be unable to
没空见你 See you today after all, doctor
有事和他的秘书接触 His diary secretary will be in touch, then.
该死的高速公路堵车 堵了好几小时 Bloody highway pile-up. Stuck there for hours.
先生们 Gentlemen.
我是迈克尔·杨 德克勒克先生 Michael Young, Mr De Klerk.
你好 How do you do?
威廉·德克勒克 Willem De Klerk, journalist and
记者 时政评论员 Political commentator
-很高兴见到你 -荣幸之至 - Pleased to meet you. - Pleasure, sir.
咱们进去吧 Shall we?
大家很担心你的安危 You had us worried there.
你们不可能这么容易就甩掉我 You don't get rid of me that easily.
我亲爱的老朋友 My dear friend and comrade.
你想象不到我收到你的消息有多开心 I cannot tell you my relief to hear from you at last.
就像之前联系时我提醒过你的一样 Had you contacted me before, I could have warned you...
和政府进行谈判的条件 That yours are not the only talks
除了释放你还有其他很多 Taking place with the government.
不过释放你是谈判的首要条件 Your release is high on the agenda of those discussions.
鉴于新总统的强硬政策 Given the hard line position of the new state president...
这些谈判条件依旧悬而未决 The future of those talks must now hang in the balance.
你说应该怎么定义 威廉 Call it what it is, Willie.
少数者的权利和白人权利均等 Minority rights, equals white rights
换句话说 你想我们确保 In other words, you want us to ensure...
白人永久享有特权 The privileges whites enjoy are perpetuated.
团体权利的构想在于 The idea of group rights is that no
没有一个团体可以凌驾于令一个 Group has dominanance over another...
不论白人还是黑人 White or black.
这不正是你的那些不分种族的信条吗 Isn't that what your non-racial credo is all about?
如果没有这些的保障 But without assurance of that...
总统是永远不会上谈判桌的 The president will never come to the negotiating table.
不是这样吗 威廉 Is that not so, Willem?
我不知道 教授 That's not for me to say, Professor.
德克勒克的弟弟并没泄露很多东西 De klerk's brother doesn't give much away.
他一直说他不是他哥哥的保姆 He frequently points out he's not his brother's keeper.
他仅仅是畏于强权 过段时间就好了 He barely got his feet under the table, give him time.
时间不多了 Time is the enemy.
每天他耽搁一点 我们就离 Every day he procrastinates, is one
血腥的暴动近了一点 Closer to bloody scene action
巴纳德那边怎么样 What is Barnard's sense of him?
巴纳德不能像以前那样 Barnard's access to the president's
可以进入总统办公室了 Office is not what it used to be.
现在只能把赌注压在他弟弟身上了 We must rely on his brother for that now.
我觉得咱们应该谈谈 I thought we might discuss your
你对白天谈话的想法 Impressions of the day...
我屋里有些不错的白兰地 I've some excellent brandy in my room.
改天吧 Another night, perhaps.
亲爱的朋友 My dear friend...
咱们的努力已经到最关键的一步 Our struggle is now at a tipping point,
就像咱们的国家一样 As is our country.
咱们必须劝服德克勒克以及他的政府 We must try and convince De Klerk and his government...
告诉他白人根本不用害怕我们 That the whites have nothing to fear from us.
这并不是因为我们被统治而复仇 It is not revenge that governs us,
这是一种和解 But reconciliation.
我们必须用尽各种方法 We must use every method open
让他明白只有他快点行动 To us to make him understand
我们才能达成共识 That unless he acts soon, we cannot deliver.
他到底在等什么 What is he waiting for?
他决定前还剩几周 几个月 How many more weeks, how many more months until he acts?
他决定如何处置曼德拉 And where is he on mandela? Can he not
他难道不知道将他关的越久 See the longer he keeps in prison
他就需要越多的时间去改革掌权吗 The more time he is giving for mob rule to take hold?
没错 Exactly!
你说的这些我通通不知道 姆贝基先生 I do not have the answers you're looking for, Mr Mbeki.
我哥哥没有向我吐露 My brother is not in the habit of
政府决策的习惯 Confiding in me about government policy
看来他也不会告诉别人 Or anyone else, it seems.
是的 Yes.
是的 我很理解 你真的有把握吗 Yes, I understand well. Are you absolutely sure?
我们不能那么干 We can't put it like that.
没错 确实很重要 Yes, it's important,
但只是浪费时间而已 But it's a waste of time.
非常抱歉 我迷路了 I apologise. I lost track of...
咱们是否可以继续刚才 Shall we start by returning to the
关于外围项目的 Outside item...
不好意思 如果你不介意 我想 I wonder... Do you mind, I'm sorry?
代表我哥哥 有一些事情 On behalf of my brother, I have
我需要确认一下 Some issues for clarification.
如果你们愿意听的话 If you will bear with me.
第一点 One...
什么时候非洲国民大会 When would it be possible for the ANC to embark on talks...
可以就如何促进 About how to progress formal
与政府正式协商进行会谈 Negotiations with the government...
第二点 Two.
你们进行这个会谈的前提是什么 What would your preconditions be to such talks...
第三 你们会接受什么样的议程 And, three... What agenda would be acceptable to you?
你可以告诉总统 You can... Tell the president...
我们这方不会事先提任何条件 There will be no preconditions on our side...
我们可以让他去敲定议程 And we leave it to him to determine the agenda.
至于时间 As for timing...
他方便时我们就可以开始 We are ready when he is.
你们关于终止暴动的态度是 And your position on the cease fire of violence?
在会谈进行时我们会下令 We would order that all violence be suspended...
暂停所有暴动行为 While negotiations take place.
当新的宪法通过之后 When a new constitution has been agreed...
我们会下令 We will give the instruction that the armed struggle...
解除武装冲突 Is to be abandoned.
奥利弗 Oliver.
塔博 Thabo.
你能帮我读读这个吗 Would you read this for me, please?
尽管我们分别多年 "Although we have been apart all these years..."
在我的脑中就好像我用毕生时间 It's as if i've been conducting a lifelong conversation...
在和你交谈 With you in my head.
我现在唯一希望的就是你快好起来 All I pray now, is that you recover so, god willing...
上帝保佑我们可以见面 We can continue it face to face.
只要你病体可以康复 As for my freedom...
我的自由也就没有那么重要了 It is a secondary matter until you are strong again.
直到所有的冤狱得以昭雪 And, until all those imprisoned have won theirs.
我才能放心的拥抱自由 I must be the last to gain his liberty.
3个月后 1990年2月11日
不知道是谁 问什么都说不 He wouldn't give a name, much less take no for an answer.
埃斯特侯赛 Esterhuyse.
天气还如往常一样糟糕吗 I suppose the weather's the usual crap?
你打电话就想讨论这个吗 Is that what you called to discuss?
你那现在几点了 What time is it over there?
-中午十二点 -下午两点去看电视吧 - Noon. - Turn on your tv. 2 pm, your time.
现在 我们等待已久的 Now, as we wait for what's been
历史性时刻即将到来 Built an historical dress
让我们先回顾一下过去的几个月 Let's reflect on the momentous
发生的重大事件 Events of the past few month
冷战后柏林墙终于被推倒了 The tearing down of the berlin wall and the end of the cold war.
而南非却依旧没有看到黎明 But, south africa has had many false dawns.
很多演讲虽然大同小异 So many speeches which have commons
然而真正实现的却几乎没有 So much, yet deliverd so little.
现在出现的是德克勒克总统和他的内阁 Here now is president De Klerk flanked by his cabinet.
在他走上讲台这几秒钟 整个南非 As he makes his way to the podium, all of south africa...
甚至整个世界都屏息而待 And indeed the world, holds it's breath.
我的政府已经决定 My government has taken the decision
马上并且无条件的 To immediately and unconditionally.
释放纳尔逊·曼德拉先生 Release Mr Nelson Mandela.
我同时决定取消解散 I've also instructed that the prohibition...
非洲国民大会 全非洲大会 Of the african national congress the pan african congress...
以及南非共产党的命令 And the south african communist party be immediately lifted.
协商洽谈是大势所趋 The time has come to negotiate.
数百万南非人民的希望 The hopes of millions of south africans...
都寄托于协商会谈之中 Will be centred on that process.
我们不再犹豫 我们不怕失败 We must not falter. We dare not fail.
谢谢 Thank you.
我们现在来到了维克多沃斯特监狱 We go now to victor verster prison, where Mr Mandela...
曼德拉先生被关于此地长达三十年之久 The man who's been imprisoned for nearly three decades...
72岁高龄的他将出现在公众面前 72 years old, will be appearing in public...
他彻底自由了 For the first time, any moment now.
国际媒体冲向前面 International media perched.
人群沸腾了 The crowd getting excited.
那就是他 That's him.
这就是曼德拉先生 纳尔逊·曼德拉 And there is Mister Mandela. Nelson Mandela.
一个自由的人 A free man.
一步一步走向了一个新的南非 Taking his first steps into a new south africa.
他旁边的曼德拉夫人在向众人招手 This is Mrs Winnie Mandela next to him waving to the crowds.
纳尔逊·曼德拉也敬了个礼 And a salute from Mr Nelson Mandela.
他要感谢那些 He is greeting the people who have
为了这个国家等了如此久的那些人 Been waiting for so long for the state
这就是全世界都期待看到的那个人 This is the man that the world's been waiting to see.
27年来的首次亮相 His first public appearance in 27 years.
这个日子对他来说也是等了如此之久 The day for which he too, has waited so long.
实在太感谢你了 We owe you so much more.
不为名利实属真男儿 It takes a big man to make himself invisible.
谢谢你能理解 Thank you.
谢谢你 迈克 谢谢你 Thank you. Michael. Thank you.
注意安全 Stay safe.
你也是 And you...
同志 Comrade.
非洲民族会议和政府协商4年后南非迎来首届民主选举
1999年 塔博·姆贝基继任纳尔逊·曼德拉就任总统 威利·埃斯特侯赛成为他最信任的顾问
奥利佛·坦布没有看到南非的民主 1993年死于中风 迈克尔·杨离开联合矿业公司仍活跃于国际政坛
爱尔兰共和军决定通过和谈解决爱尔兰冲突 并私下求教于非洲民族会议
他们正在解决伊斯兰抵抗运动